GTA V RP Server - Fining system process

[Cryptic Strolski]

There's been quite a bit of talk about when fines should be used and when jail time should be used.

It is of course in the LEO guidelines that less is more basically. We want to reward RP and in turn minimize the amount of fines and jail time based on the RP.

I'd like to suggest an alteration to the direction of the system. Lets make Fines crime based and Jail time RP based. This of course infers that I suggest using BOTH in every situation.

Basically, I'd like to suggest that we enact FULL fines based on the actions of the offender, this means a fine for every crime committed as long as the officer witnessed it. If you feel this will be abused, that's fine, maybe we can add a requirement that recording footage must be used in a case where 5 or more items are being fined for.

Second, I'd like to see us use the Jail time as an RP meter. If the RP was excellent, they go to jail for under 5 minutes. If the RP was crap and intentionally lazy, they go to jail for up to an hour(That could be half an hour, not sure what the scale is for time).

I feel like at the current time, we have too little clarity on HOW TO use the tools we have available as officers and if we are to roleplay in a SERIOUS fashion, 100% fines are a reality. If you feel that the fines being used this way will rack up too large a fine? Then lets adjust the fines accordingly to allow for this type of use. I personally think they look pretty solid as is.

Right now, basically we give a small fine to generalize everything and then give them a little jail time, and I feel like it makes the tools entirely useless, even from a roleplay perspective. I don't see a point in fining at all if we are just going to generalize and make it a miniature fine and when the jail time is limited to RP based rewarding, we've basically run out of tools.

This whole situation connects as well directly with a large need for a better fine acquisition process. At the current moment in time, we have no way to encourage/make players pay their fines. They can literally go about their day without paying any of them, which again makes fines pointless. We need a system in place that either forces a debt that is auto paid by the player based on their income, or something else that limits their abilities/ease of access to things in the server until those fines are paid.

 

[Summer]

Legend

 

[Cryptic Strolski]

I just want to add, the current system is basically designed to set officers up to fail. This is because it is "Up to officer's discretion". The fate of an individual's livelihood should NEVER be up to officer discretion, it should be clearly written in law and consequences for such actions should be very clear. Officers right now use said discretion and then get a lecture on how they were too harsh. It's basically a catch 22 process right now.

Changing things to a 100% fine system with possibly lesser fines for each crime to allow this not to become overwhelming allows officers to entirely describe the situation and punish the criminal for the crimes they have committed and the punishment is fair because it is ONLY for the crimes committed and not discretionary decisions.

 

[mom]

I can’t stress this enough, we don’t need to force civilians to do things they don’t want to do. It’s not healthy in any sense of the word. The server should be fair and fun for all parties (civs, police, ems, etc), and the suggestion you are proposing would, for a lack of better words, poison that.

Besides, it’s realistic that criminals don’t pay fines.

 

[Cryptic Strolski]

I can’t stress this enough, we don’t need to force civilians to do things they don’t want to do. It’s not healthy in any sense of the word. The server should be fair and fun for all parties (civs, police, ems, etc), and the suggestion you are proposing would just strip that away.

Besides, it’s pretty realistic that criminals don’t pay fines.

And yet, real criminals who don't pay fines tend to end up in prison for a long time or they have their wages garnished, property forcibly taken, etc. There's a disconnect here. We can't arrest players and stick them in prison for hours because that removes them from the game. Fines create an ingame punishment. Honestly, the argument that "Real criminals don't pay fines" feels like SUPER lazy RP to me because this is a game and every other server I've been to forces players to pay those fines because it's a part of the economy and gameplay.

Your argument I've seen so far is basically "Let the criminals do what they want without consequences and every so often lets send them to jail for a few minutes".

The suggestion I'm providing is making fines more realistic for the criminals to pay while allowing officers to actually roleplay punishing a criminal for the full crime and not just rushing the paperwork process which is a big part of police roleplay that some of us enjoy doing. By arguing that fines shouldn't exist, you are in turn taking that part of the roleplay from us police players.

 

[mom]

And yet, real criminals who don't pay fines tend to end up in prison for a long time or they have their wages garnished, property forcibly taken, etc. There's a disconnect here. We can't arrest players and stick them in prison for hours because that removes them from the game. Fines create an ingame punishment. Honestly, the argument that "Real criminals don't pay fines" feels like SUPER lazy RP to me because this is a game and every other server I've been to forces players to pay those fines because it's a part of the economy and gameplay.

Your argument I've seen so far is basically "Let the criminals do what they want without consequences and every so often lets send them to jail for a few minutes".

The suggestion I'm providing is making fines more realistic for the criminals to pay while allowing officers to actually roleplay punishing a criminal for the full crime and not just rushing the paperwork process which is a big part of police roleplay that some of us enjoy doing. By arguing that fines shouldn't exist, you are in turn taking that part of the roleplay from us police players.

But what happens if civilians physically can’t pay the fines? Are they going to go thousands of dollars into debt and have all of their possessions stripped off of them, alongside hours of jail time?

Also, I never proposed to remove fines entirely. I proposed for them to be used like they used to; traffic infractions, minor offenses, etc.

Also also, letting criminals do whatever they want with no consequences isn’t and never was my argument. I just want to keep the server fun for everyone.

 

[Cryptic Strolski]

But what happens if civilians physically can’t pay the fines? Are they going to go thousands of dollars into debt and have all of their possessions stripped off of them, alongside hours of jail time?

Also, I never proposed to remove fines entirely. I proposed for them to be used like they used to; traffic infractions, minor offenses, etc.

Also also, letting criminals do whatever they want with no consequences isn’t and never was my argument.

please see

I liked how things worked regarding the jailing/fining system much better before the reset (no fines, “higher” jail sentences). I don’t see why fines are even being issued as much as they are, it’s pretty unnecessary.

If civilians can't pay the fines, all of their income goes toward those fines.

Lets be real here, when someone can afford a GTR, they don't have an excuse to not pay their fines.

And yes, if you get caught being a filthy criminal that managed to rack up thousands of dollars in fines, then yes, you should lose everything that amounts to the debt owed. That's life man. You can't just go committing crimes without risking losing things, otherwise there's no risk and in turn no need for police.

The WORST I've seen someone get fined in an instance is 40k-ish. That's nothing compared to the price of the cars yall are driving, so this really is a ridiculous argument.

 

[mom]

please see



If civilians can't pay the fines, all of their income goes toward those fines.

Lets be real here, when someone can afford a GTR, they don't have an excuse to not pay their fines.

And yes, if you get caught being a filthy criminal that managed to rack up thousands of dollars in fines, then yes, you should lose everything that amounts to the debt owed. That's life man. You can't just go committing crimes without risking losing things, otherwise there's no risk and in turn no need for police.

The WORST I've seen someone get fined in an instance is 40k-ish. That's nothing compared to the price of the cars yall are driving, so this really is a ridiculous argument.

The thing is, forcing a civilian to give up all of their income is pushing on the lines of power gaming. You’d be forcing them into a scenario that they don’t want to be in, with little to no ways of getting out.

Maybe some sort of system could be added where civilians can’t purchase vehicles or weapons until their debts are paid (after a set amount of time).

What I meant on your other thread was that I liked when civilians weren’t being fined when being placed under arrest, instead being given noticeably higher jail sentences. Speaking for myself, having higher jail sentences would discourage me more from doing a crime opposed to having high fines.

 

[Cryptic Strolski]

The thing is, forcing a civilian to give up all of their income is pushing on the lines of power gaming. You’d be forcing them into a scenario that they don’t want to be in, with little to no ways of getting out.

Maybe some sort of system could be added where civilians can’t purchase vehicles or weapons until their debts are paid (after a set amount of time).

What I meant on your other thread was that I liked when civilians weren’t being fined when being placed under arrest, instead being given noticeably higher jail sentences. Speaking for myself, having higher jail sentences would discourage me more from doing a crime opposed to having high fines.

While you may be speaking for yourself, others just hop characters.

As for purchases, I have suggested this as a solution to owed fines in the other thread. We suggested you not be able to use the impound without paying those fines, but they said the other debts like I think car rental and what not interfere with that possibility basically blocking impound off.

All I'm saying with fines is there needs to be SOME form of encouragement to pay them because right now there is none.