Farewell, Heavy

While playing tonight I realized the stun isn't all together bad, what's bad is what comes afterward. When you get stunned on the front line (soldiers, heavies, and pyro's) it's an almost guranteed death, no matter how many medics pop to that target or people get infront of him, the huge bonk over their head makes them the prime target to anyone defending. Yankee said in game a very good way to nerf the sandman but still keep it for the scout, which was to keep the stun duration and affects except that you wake up from the stun when you take damage. This would keep the scout from being a combat killing class, and change him back to an annoying, pestering, back stabbing, point capturing quick dude. But the problem is that the loss of the double jump would be to much to sacrifice, but you could always give it back now that the stun would only be temporary.

(all credit goes to Yankee for the idea.)
 
I love being "That Guy" who doesnt actually kill... just sandman's
 
If this really turns out to be a problem, then I would think a simple addition of diminishing returns would fix it (whether within one life or in a period of time is a matter of debate). Indeed, you could maybe even make it so when getting hit with a ball while already stunned you would immediately stop being stunned/get a powerup. This would not only discourage scouts from overusing the sandman, but punish them for being careless. Sure, stopping the uber is good and all, but if you have two scouts "stopping" the uber? Well, now the heavy isn't stunned, and (this is the powerup idea) has critz, or immunity to the sandman, or more speed, or some other thing that makes the scouts life worse.

If the issue is of the SM being used to often on everyone in the game (as opposed to just heavies), then maybe Valve needs to consider removing the mechanic of being able to pick up the balls/increase the recharge time for the SM.
 
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Hmmm, we could also probably have the pyro's fire have the same thing. Along with his flare gun. Oh and the axe that does 100% crit to people on fire.

After being lit on fire so many times, it could act as a shield and repel other attacks for a certain amount of time. I really hate it when a pyro with the Backburner comes up behind me when I'm a medic and kills me just before my uber is ready. Would be awesome to become powered up instead once he tried that.

/sarcasm

Not to be rude...but that's how a lot of the arguements sound over the Sandman (Don't mean to pick on you Dan2025). There is nothing wrong with the Sandman. It would be like arguing the fact that being lit on fire and taking damage over time is overpowered. Don't try and argue that you can jump in water, get a health pack, or find a medic/dispenser to heal yourself to stop the fire. What about being on a CP map? or a goldrush server? No water there. Hardly any chances to be healed by a medic unless you're a front line class and you're never by a med pack when you need one after finishing a fight with a pyro.

You all know that feeling of dying an inch away from a med pack or getting to the spot but it hasn't respawned yet and you die seconds before it does.

If people want to pick on the Scout for being able to defend himself, then the rest of the classes can be ripped apart for being unbalanced as well. Remember, the Scout didn't get an HP buff. It's still as fragile as ever. Especially with the Sandman. No double jump means less agility and the inability to escape from multiple enemies. Sure, you can stun one person, but if there are two? Three more next to him?

One on one, the Scout just makes you play harder. Stop saying he is overpowered just because you can't walk all over the average Scount like you used to when running around lone wolf style.

If you want to do that, go play CoD4 Free for All. :cool:
 
Heavy is not obsolete and I have proof!!!











Took these tonight after a server restart. As you can see a Heavy is more than capable of still doing his job after the update with Sandman out there. And believe me Scouts were out in force tonight. (I think it worth noting Esquire was Demo most if not all of this time.) So you see folks it is just like the other updates. Need a little adjustment period. Now NEVER EVER say my class is being made obsolete! Discussion may have moved away from this particular topic but its important to me.
 
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Heavy is not obsolete and I have proof!!!











Took these tonight after a server restart. As you can see a Heavy is more than capable of still doing his job after the update with Sandman out there. And believe me Scouts were out in force tonight. (I think it worth noting Esquire was Demo most if not all of this time.) So you see folks it is just like the other updates. Need a little adjustment period. Now NEVER EVER say my class is being made obsolete! Discussion may have moved away from this particular topic but its important to me.

Lol awesome. Mow down those Scouts Mesa.
 
Too bad I had to bail before you took that screenshot. Guess who was right behind him as Medic?
 
Too bad I had to bail before you took that screenshot. Guess who was right behind him as Medic?
Hang on I shall do some digging think I have one.




Found one from early on.

A good player makes the game adapt to him. A great player adapts himself to the game.
 
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To all those Sandman naysayers, I quote the Heavy:

Heavy Weapons Guy said:
Cry some more, babies!

I mean, really. For the first time since I first launched TF2 Scout is a viable class for less twitchy people. For the first time in a long time I've been able to live longer than 30 seconds as scout.

I think all the weapons for the scout has, yes, changed the tactics for the game.

Wahh! Wahh! I can't walk into the middle of an open field any more spinning my minigun even though I'm a defensive class! Wahh!

About the only part that I would be upset about is pausing ubers. If I was a guy at Valve, I would ask if the ubercharge meter could not deplete when a medic gets stunned; the ubercharge meter pauses.

I think, finally, the game forces teamwork. Every complaint I hear sounds like "I can't go off on my own any more! Wahh!" As many people have said, when I see a stunned player, I approach to assist keeping him alive. Why? If I fail, the guy dies anyway. But if I win, ha HA! Not only did I save a friend, but I got a scout kill!

I think the novelty will wear off pretty quick. People will get tired of playing nothing but scout, and people will get bored with random bonking. Heck, after I got my swag, I've played Medic and Engie and even Heavy more than I've played Scout. The game will balance itself, just give it time.

While we are speaking of overpowered weapons, I have to complain about the butterfly knife. It's too fast now! They aren't going to randomly miss me to my happiness! I think this should be nerfed, immedeatly.

Also, the sniper rifle. How much does this suck: A guy just SITS THERE camping like a jerkface, and just because I walk into his line of sight, BAM! DEAD! I think that sucks alot, because he gets to kill me without any danger of me killing him back. That just plain sucks, and it needs to be removed, immedeatly. It should be replaced with a banana.

They will stun, run up, kill, run away. If they miss, they run away for like 10 sec and wait to get their ball back for a free kill. That is not balance and this needs to be fixed ASAP.

I've always noticed that the best Scouts are hit-and-run people. They jump from a roof, empty a few shells into you, then dash away while you're still spinning around trying to figure out what hurt you.

Yeah, now he can bonk you, rush in, and kill you... but he shouldn't be able to because you shouldn't be alone! There's a reason why the respawn timers in Valve maps try to group people in waves.

how does valve not test any of this, the update is not only unbalanced but it introduced a whole new set of bugs.

I used to be a programmer. Of course it's heavily tested, and betaed. But once you put the program in the real world, you always have silly things you never thought of that pops up, or your betas didn't notice the natasha slowdown, or it only happens on computers with nVidia graphics cards, etc, etc.

So, it happens. I'm only going to be mad at them if it's not fixed pretty soon. I mean, Natasha is my gal. I don't even look at Sasha any more. To have it so completely nerfed, makes me sad.

Why is it taking so long to patch?!

Well, you don't want the patch sent out untested, do you?

If you've ever tinkered with Source Modding, as in code modding, you'd realize just how interconnected the system is. Adding feature X can cause data structure Y to mess up; it just happens. In fact, fixing it right can take longer than the initial setup.

You know what? I think the sandman, should actually blur someone's vision. Like make his screen go all weird *as if he was dizzy* with stars blocking his vision, like you see in a cartoon. So it actually allows the person to fight back but it stills puts them in a situation where it's still gives the scout the ability to maneuver :D!!

I like this, and I think it will balance things up a bit.

The scout has just become an actual threat, not just a cruddy class that everyone ignores until they grab the intel by some miracle.

This is my position, in a nutshell. The scout is no longer sentry fodder and flag carriers, only. They are a viable threat. You have to watch out for your teammates. You have to pay attention to scouts. You have to stick in a group. You can't lone wolf. You have to play TEAM Fortress 2.

Valve's mentioned that their updates are being planned to encourage stronger team play. That's what all these updates do. They encourage people to play as a team, stay in a group, plan out their attacks, etc.

You want to run off and PWN by yourself, go play CS:S or DoD:S, or CoD4/5 or one of the many, many other fps's that don't focus on teamwork. I'd hate to see people leave over this silly update. But I don't want the weapons to be nerfed too much. It's about time that Scout is something viable to play.
 
Perfect example of valve "fixing" a class to counter a class meant to be hard for the class to take down. Ex, a spy will have trouble taking down a pyro who knows said spy is there. The sandman would be like giving crit revolver shots to spies when enemies are facing them.
 
Perfect example of valve "fixing" a class to counter a class meant to be hard for the class to take down. Ex, a spy will have trouble taking down a pyro who knows said spy is there. The sandman would be like giving crit revolver shots to spies when enemies are facing them.

I gotta say...that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I understand where you're going with it...but its not a valid comparison. You just can't compare class survivability. They didn't fix the Scout class. They gave us an option. Either stun opponents or double jump. Two quick powerful shots or 6 fast, medium damage shots. Can of energy drink for invulnerability or pistol for ranged attack.

I love the Heavy class, but never cared for Natascha. So I stick with my Sasha, KGB gloves, and Sandvich. We have choices. These are not fixes.

Please understand that difference. ;)
 
A lot of people are playing it right now since it is the new thing. Eventually it will die down. I play a lot of Heavy and I'm doing okay despite being bonked with the baseball. You can strafe past them if your reaction time is quick enough. Just don't lone wolf so they cannot bonk you and rush you like many times in the video in this thread.
 
Yeah, I have no problem with the scout update except not being able to stand on somebody and stab them, and how much the sandman defeats ubers. Uber stun times just need to be reduced thats all. And btw, when you uber, everyone else is supposed to rush behind the uber since the uber will take the sentry fire. So if the person you uber gets bonked then all you have to do is choose another person that should be nearby. So the only way an uber should be ruined would be if the medic gets bonked.
 
Damnit! They made a class viable!

How could they do such a thing?
 
So stop playing Heavy on Black Mesa.

But it so much fun. Especially with the over confident Scouts that rush in with the Sandman, knock a ball at me, move and ball misses, and then I procceed to fill said Bostonian with custom tooled $200 rounds. I <3 Sascha.
 

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