Farewell, Heavy

[pitchblack]

HAHAHA nice my aim is so bad with the sandman lulz

 

[bigwilly]

I wonder what will happen when all these scouts with the sandman actually become proficient in using it.

 

[bigwilly]

I love the Heavy class, but never cared for Natascha. So I stick with my Sasha, KGB gloves, and Sandvich. We have choices. These are not fixes.

Please understand that difference.

Some are choices. Some are downright fixes. Ubersaw-fix. Blutsauger-fix. Airblast-fix. Heavy was def the first choice update, but even that was tweaked, as was pyro. I'm pretty sure scout will get a tweak on the update. Other classes have been nerfed in the past when peeps cried, scout is simply going to get its turn. Welcome to my world, I have no pity.

 

[Vainiac]

i personally don't have a problem with the sandman. I never play heavy but I started playing him after the scout update. The stun is annoying but not game breaking. if anything it encourages more teamwork because it makes lone wolfing it more dangerous. another thing more than one person should be moving in on an uber, if your first guy gets stunned then move on to the next, a medic is fast enough that he shouldn't get stunned very often from long range and if a scout gets close the uberee should be protecting him. Again this is TEAM fortress, not HWG vs 16 other players fortress.
And another thing dont judge the utility of a weapon by looking at completely unbalanced maps, i.e. blackmesa, toyfort, etc. anything with a tight choke and no way around is going to make some tactics better than other (*cough* sticky camping *cough*). Go play on granary, well, fastlane, gravelpit and anything else with multiple routes and sandman becomes much less effective. And despites valves best efforts scout still sucks on goldrush and dustbowl

 

[Stunna_Shades]

Lol

 

[Dan2025]

Hmmm, we could also probably have the pyro's fire have the same thing. Along with his flare gun. Oh and the axe that does 100% crit to people on fire.

After being lit on fire so many times, it could act as a shield and repel other attacks for a certain amount of time. I really hate it when a pyro with the Backburner comes up behind me when I'm a medic and kills me just before my uber is ready. Would be awesome to become powered up instead once he tried that.

/sarcasm

Not to be rude...but that's how a lot of the arguements sound over the Sandman (Don't mean to pick on you Dan2025). There is nothing wrong with the Sandman. It would be like arguing the fact that being lit on fire and taking damage over time is overpowered. Don't try and argue that you can jump in water, get a health pack, or find a medic/dispenser to heal yourself to stop the fire. What about being on a CP map? or a goldrush server? No water there. Hardly any chances to be healed by a medic unless you're a front line class and you're never by a med pack when you need one after finishing a fight with a pyro.

You all know that feeling of dying an inch away from a med pack or getting to the spot but it hasn't respawned yet and you die seconds before it does.

If people want to pick on the Scout for being able to defend himself, then the rest of the classes can be ripped apart for being unbalanced as well. Remember, the Scout didn't get an HP buff. It's still as fragile as ever. Especially with the Sandman. No double jump means less agility and the inability to escape from multiple enemies. Sure, you can stun one person, but if there are two? Three more next to him?

One on one, the Scout just makes you play harder. Stop saying he is overpowered just because you can't walk all over the average Scount like you used to when running around lone wolf style.

If you want to do that, go play CoD4 Free for All.

That was pretty much an if statement in my last post. I currently don't actually have a problem with scouts (other than getting killed by them a lot [which is a problem I have with every class actually]). I was simply making a suggestion to a problem that might have been. Indeed, the survivability of the scout in all those examples was really only because he had teammates with him (namely engineers with dispensers handy). One on two, if the scout when up against a heavy-medic parring, then ether the heavy would shoot him and he would die (in the cases the scout went after the medic) or the medic would pull out his primary weapons and kill the scout (in cases where the scout went after the heavy). In all the cases where the scout manages to kill a heavy, he isn't alone. Indeed, most every time the heavy is also under fire from other classes or even a turret.

In a way this is a good thing. The scout is now a more team oriented class under these conditions. He can stunn people, but he can't always do much about it unless there's some teammates with him to make the most of the situation. The main reason this is a problem right now is that there's just too many scouts, and so the heavies aren't really doing much other than sitting around sunned. But this happens every update. It sucked to be a spy after the pyro update, and it sucks to be a heavy right now. In both cases I believe things shall sort themselves out with time.

 

[Black cat]

The SG couldnt kill the heavy, but the scout alone could?

 

[Jeebus]

That was pretty much an if statement in my last post. I currently don't actually have a problem with scouts (other than getting killed by them a lot [which is a problem I have with every class actually]). I was simply making a suggestion to a problem that might have been. Indeed, the survivability of the scout in all those examples was really only because he had teammates with him (namely engineers with dispensers handy). One on two, if the scout when up against a heavy-medic parring, then ether the heavy would shoot him and he would die (in the cases the scout went after the medic) or the medic would pull out his primary weapons and kill the scout (in cases where the scout went after the heavy). In all the cases where the scout manages to kill a heavy, he isn't alone. Indeed, most every time the heavy is also under fire from other classes or even a turret.

In a way this is a good thing. The scout is now a more team oriented class under these conditions. He can stunn people, but he can't always do much about it unless there's some teammates with him to make the most of the situation. The main reason this is a problem right now is that there's just too many scouts, and so the heavies aren't really doing much other than sitting around sunned. But this happens every update. It sucked to be a spy after the pyro update, and it sucks to be a heavy right now. In both cases I believe things shall sort themselves out with time.

Heh, like I said, I didn't mean to pick on you (it's in the post, you can check it XP). I was just making the point that people feel like suddenly a new update should be changed to fit their style of playing. You're not the first person I've seen to make a suggestion about the Scout class updates (which isn't even a week old yet) and when I saw what you posted, it seemed to fit perfectly for my post.

But I'm glad you do see the reason why Valve created the Sandman as do other people who are posting that this game is team oriented.

Huzzah to you Dan!

 

[Captain Ashton]

The problem is, that if you take away the stun effect, all you are left with is exactly the same as the normal bat except the taunt can kill and you can't double jump. What are they supposed to do?

 

[sLooKer]

a fond farewell to bully heavy medics camping spawn on blackmesa. you will never be missed. HAHA BONK!

 

[Plork]

The problem is, that if you take away the stun effect, all you are left with is exactly the same as the normal bat except the taunt can kill and you can't double jump. What are they supposed to do?

Plenty. You can turn it into a long range weapon that does damage instead of stunning. You can make it so it works like a brush back like the compression blast. That could help to keep scouts safe by keeping their enemies further away from them. You could have it so as soon as any damage is done to a stunned enemy then the stunned effect is removed. All of these have been mentioned here and I think they would all be viable alternatives to the over powered sandman as it is.

 

[midget31394]

*sigh* I got to the third pageand got bored with the "Scout is overpowerd yadda yadda yadda" Ubersaw gives 25% uber, so 4 hits, as long as the medic is good will weild a good ubercharge. Whereas other, less combat friendly medics cannot. Sentryguns almost unstoppable unless you are a good demoman, pyro (at corners) or soldier. The sandman yes it stuns you, wait until there is only one or two scouts per server it wont be possible for that scout to be where every uber is, where every campable place is. Scouts used to hardly dent a team, now they can actually contribute, and people are complaining? Get used to it. Natascha is really bad, it slows people down, which screwed scouts up even more. This was well needed and I am loving it. Its nice to have to try and hit someone while dodging balls, a nice challenge.

 

[Jeebus]

*sigh* I got to the third pageand got bored with the "Scout is overpowerd yadda yadda yadda" Ubersaw gives 25% uber, so 4 hits, as long as the medic is good will weild a good ubercharge. Whereas other, less combat friendly medics cannot. Sentryguns almost unstoppable unless you are a good demoman, pyro (at corners) or soldier. The sandman yes it stuns you, wait until there is only one or two scouts per server it wont be possible for that scout to be where every uber is, where every campable place is. Scouts used to hardly dent a team, now they can actually contribute, and people are complaining? Get used to it. Natascha is really bad, it slows people down, which screwed scouts up even more. This was well needed and I am loving it. Its nice to have to try and hit someone while dodging balls, a nice challenge.

Huzzah! Yes! This is how we should be responding as a community!

 

[whohitme]

At the moment I think that the scout seems to be a little overpowered, but I don't think that it is all that bad. I say give it a couple weeks before making your decision on the update. I think that anything that forces you to make some adjustments to your game is good - it keeps things interesting. I do think there needs to be some tweaking which I expect will happen.

Originally I thought that the stun would be sort of like L4D, where you get the blurry and off balance feeling for a while. I think that would be a lot more balanced since the person being bonked would at least have some sort of chance at defending. Having to just sit there watching yourself be whaled on in third person is pretty annoying though.

Also, I have been having a blast killing scouts on BlackMesa with Heavy and Demo - I think a little better K/D ratio than normal actually.

 

[Jeebus]

Just got off of 2fort normal respawn. We had one or two scouts per team.

Game was amazingly balanced. Even though I stunned one person, there were three or four more people right behind him. Game hasn't changed much at all. Just that Scout have a push back and stun. The drink is good for getting past sentries but so far that's about it. Unless you're retreating to your team after scouting ahead.

 

[Jinsei Zetsumei]

You know what I think? When I first heard about sandman I was all, what in the world is this crap, come on really? Then I heard about the FaN, didn't care for how it sounded either. The drink was the only thing I had hopes for wanting to use, but then the stuff came out and I realized that the FaN is a great weapon, and that stunning is even more interesting, after further inspection I relized all three weapons had something in comein. They had the abolity to provied the scout with more surviablity and the ability to run in and get out quickly, as well as escape. So after a bit I relaized the scout could now do something and not die every 2-3 secounds, then I really gave the items a secound look and I realized what they really did. They are a new mechanics added to the game that discourage people moveing alone or in really small groups, for medics to be ready to switch uber to someone else the moment the person they uber gets stunned, and that he drink can be more then enouge for a distraction for SG's heavies, and people who decied that catching the scout after his 5 secound invuln, is more important the stopping the uncomeing rush. I think in some way what these updates have done is discourage working alone, enless of course you are a spy and sniper and are expected to, and has started to encourage more team work. From what I can tell people are trying to win more often latley, rounds seem to end a bit sooner, or just end.

So in conclusion I have decidied that the new update has been an attempt to force people back to doing what the game was orignally suppose to be about, and thats team work.

Of course I might just be crazy and rambeling on and on about nothing who knows.

 

[sittingduck]

Ok guys. I might be the only guy with this issue but I can not hit anything with the sandman that is moving to the left or right. So when you see a scout with a sandman, act like its really a sniper, a hair to the left or right is a compleat miss. As for ubers, yes its a little too powerful but it could be worst..I mean if he cant stun he should be able to knockback a uber 3 crit rockets at an uber feet.

thats my 2 cents..you have an issue with it, its not mine.

 

[Dieinpeace]

LOL i liked the warning at the end of the video. But i dont see why all you heavies are complaining about dieing 1v1 to scouts. Everytime the heavy died in this video another class assisted in the kill. From a pryo with his flames on the heavy to a demo with stickys. Heck one even died to an SG(Pretty common). I dont see any valid way you can argue that the sandman is over powered. It changes the game tactics yes. But it being over powered, NO i am sorry but that is just not a valid arguement here. You want to see overpowered please just look at any demo with stickys. Those are a perfect example of something that is over powered. I will leave you with this. Which one would be easier to break past. A scout at a tight choke point or a demo?

Scouts are not over powered they just change the tactics to being more team orietanted.

 

[Captain Ashton]

Plenty. You can turn it into a long range weapon that does damage instead of stunning. You can make it so it works like a brush back like the compression blast. That could help to keep scouts safe by keeping their enemies further away from them. You could have it so as soon as any damage is done to a stunned enemy then the stunned effect is removed. All of these have been mentioned here and I think they would all be viable alternatives to the over powered sandman as it is.

Never thought of it that way. That would really help to solve the problem.

 

[Jeebus]

Never thought of it that way. That would really help to solve the problem.

If there was a problem.