[CS TTT] Possible change of some TTT rules.

[The Phatt Controller/Thot]

In this thread i shall be discussing some issues that i have faced whilst coming onto the TTT server first hand.

Firstly i wish to cover the detectives rule "Need 1 DNA scan on a dead innocent body or detective body before calling a Kill on Sight (KOS) on a player." this can lead to false kos' being called.
Example: a new player (NP) comes on the server as an innocent and rdms another innocent player (IP), you see this and kill NP. The detective comes over and id's NP's body and calls a false KOS on you.
A possible solution to the aforementioned problem could be that once an innocent kills 2 innocents then they are automatically slain during the round, then this means if the detective ids 2 bodies then they are 100% sure and certain that either the KOSed person has either already been slain or is a T, with the current rule it may cause some "rare" false KOS'es

Secondly i wish to cover the Traitorous Behaviour "Not identifying, hiding, destroying bodies or hanging them to surfaces."
This has by far got me falsely killed the most, At the moment it stands that as soon as you see someone near a body you can kill them. About 10+ times over 2 nights ive been killed in this way. Instead why don't we make people give out warnings to the people that they have seen near an UNID'ed body. The specification of said warnings could be "warn the person by the UNID'ed body twice, clearly with at least 4 seconds in between. Then after the warning allow them to kill said person.
This will let the person by the body have time to ID the body before they are killed without reason

Thirdly i feel that innocents should be able to call a true KOS, i feel that innocents should be proven by this method to. in order to let this be the case i feel that it should be a rule that T's are not allowed to call KOS at all.
The main reasoning for this change would be that when there does seem to be some confusion at times when a KOS is called and for the staff members it causes hassle as there are reports to then deal with.

If you wish me to explain anything more or would like to discuss details ill be keeping an eye on this. I look forwards to any response.

 

[The Phatt Controller/Thot]

Just another quick thing as well, would there be any way to prioritise the detectives voice when too many people are talking as the detective is the most important

 

[kuantum]

Firstly i wish to cover the detectives rule "Need 1 DNA scan on a dead innocent body or detective body before calling a Kill on Sight (KOS) on a player." this can lead to false kos' being called.
Example: a new player (NP) comes on the server as an innocent and rdms another innocent player (IP), you see this and kill NP. The detective comes over and id's NP's body and calls a false KOS on you.
A possible solution to the aforementioned problem could be that once an innocent kills 2 innocents then they are automatically slain during the round, then this means if the detective ids 2 bodies then they are 100% sure and certain that either the KOSed person has either already been slain or is a T, with the current rule it may cause some "rare" false KOS'es

In this situation, the NP would be admined in private to read the rules and Warned/Kicked/Banned before it continues further. The autoslay feature is something that's been suggested before, however, if there was t-baiting going on, it would result in a false slay.

Secondly i wish to cover the Traitorous Behaviour "Not identifying, hiding, destroying bodies or hanging them to surfaces."
This has by far got me falsely killed the most, At the moment it stands that as soon as you see someone near a body you can kill them. About 10+ times over 2 nights ive been killed in this way. Instead why don't we make people give out warnings to the people that they have seen near an UNID'ed body. The specification of said warnings could be "warn the person by the UNID'ed body twice, clearly with at least 4 seconds in between. Then after the warning allow them to kill said person.
This will let the person by the body have time to ID the body before they are killed without reason

It should absolutely be this way, if someone is murdering you instantly without a warning or anything, I would use admin chat to notify the admins.

Thirdly i feel that innocents should be able to call a true KOS, i feel that innocents should be proven by this method to. in order to let this be the case i feel that it should be a rule that T's are not allowed to call KOS at all.
The main reasoning for this change would be that when there does seem to be some confusion at times when a KOS is called and for the staff members it causes hassle as there are reports to then deal with.

No. The issue is that inno's calling KOS's can result in a lot of RDM on the server. Take for instance, an traitor kills an innocent near a group of innocents. If someone were to falsely identify a player, then you would see people kill that innocent player, a detective calling a KOS on that innocent person, and then the cycle continues.

Good suggestions, just a Devils Advocate to think about.

 

[The Phatt Controller/Thot]

Cheers for taking the time to read and give some constructive feedback.

In this situation, the NP would be admined in private to read the rules and Warned/Kicked/Banned before it continues further. The autoslay feature is something that's been suggested before, however, if there was t-baiting going on, it would result in a false slay.

I expressed this idea on the bounds of logic isnt allowed, however iding 1 body still leave possibilities that the inno might have been killed legit by an inno themselves, in which case causing a detective to id 2 bodies before they call a kos confirming that either it's a T or an innocent who has killed 2 innos and probably should die. In regards to dying by t-baiting i do understand that that itself could be an issue however the possibility of the same innocent seeing 2 people t-bait and killing them is there but id say it'd be uncommon. If the possibility of a false slay would stop this, then i would understand that.

No. The issue is that inno's calling KOS's can result in a lot of RDM on the server. Take for instance, an traitor kills an innocent near a group of innocents. If someone were to falsely identify a player, then you would see people kill that innocent player, a detective calling a KOS on that innocent person, and then the cycle continues.

This is something i hadn't really contemplated so good counter, instead of an innocent calling kos then, could the 2000 credit inno taser id the T's and let the detectives see the IDed T to, that way innos has more of a fighting chance of survival and will cause the T's to hopefully deploy better strategies.
as the taser is already 2000 it does mean innos cant instantly buy tasers and as its 2000 its relatively hard to get it the addition of others seeing an ID of the taser would make it more worthwhile as i barely see innos using the taser.
And again if its felt that this wouldn't integrate well in the server then i do understand that side of the argument too.
apologies for the late reply the night has turned to morning and my mind is slow XD

 

[Buster]

Secondly i wish to cover the Traitorous Behaviour "Not identifying, hiding, destroying bodies or hanging them to surfaces."
This has by far got me falsely killed the most, At the moment it stands that as soon as you see someone near a body you can kill them. About 10+ times over 2 nights ive been killed in this way. Instead why don't we make people give out warnings to the people that they have seen near an UNID'ed body. The specification of said warnings could be "warn the person by the UNID'ed body twice, clearly with at least 4 seconds in between. Then after the warning allow them to kill said person.
This will let the person by the body have time to ID the body before they are killed without reason

This would be a little wonky as the goal is to catch a traitor off guard. If someone kills you for not iding a body you cant see/didn't have long enough to, report them.

I believe most players use common sense and allow you some leeway, if they don't they are the issue.

 

[4g0tt3nSou1]

We have had auto slay systems in the past, they didn't go well.
The fact of the matter, is its not exactly feasible to have such a system know what is RDM or a false KOS or not, as such a system to slay them just won't work. Let me propose a scenario;
Three innos, Inno 1 shoots/TBaits/engages inno 2, inno 2 responds back with killing them as is within their right, inno 3 witnesses it partially and assumes inno 2 is a T, engages inno 2. Inno 2 kills inno 3, as is also within their right. Now with this system you propose, they get slayed for defending themselves and abiding by the rules.

This happens a LOT. Sure, MAYBE you could hook to check who damaged who, but there ate edgecases that certainly break this system; some of them would be RDM under normal circumstances but are NOT due to some technicality or other extenuating circumstance.

The best way to handle this stuff is to let an admin handle it. They can read the situation a whole lot better than any script and use a level of discretion to determine what is proper.


Your second point I also have some disagreements with, yes a player should warn the person, but it shouldn't be like jumping through hoops. It sucks being instantly killed, but we already have a rule that states that they have to give you a reasonable effort to OD the body before killing you. If you are just being instantly killed, call an admin. No rule change needed.

Such a rule change would hinder the ability of Innos to go through and kill Ts when they know they are Ts. Adding more of a barrier is just simply annoying and not gonna change anything. Even if we admin that rule, its not going to help. People make mistakes and react off of context rather than processing it for the 10 seconds extra you want(8 or 10 seconds, either way too much time).

I'm for getting some more progressive rules to combat issues, but at the same time if you are not gonna report them for RDMing you in the first place, why modify the rule to extend the rule anyways?
I'd rather deal with an RDM case every time someone gets instakilled like u describe than be forced to administrate a rule that just is an extra annoying technicality any day, and no offense but that is what this would be.


Lastly, your suggestion to allow innos to KOS people like a detective. There are so many ways this can go wrong and increase rule break more. I find it odd you'd suggest something that would be so easily exploited and cause even more rule break, when the majority of your suggestion has suggested we make tighter rules, not more loose.

Look, I'm happy to discuss rules and how they can be productively improved to better the server, even debate these with you. It helps, but these ones are not the kind of stuff that I think will help, just make things worse.

Do not let me dissuade you, I mean no disrespect, offense, and in no way am I trying to be condensending or rude. Please suggest more! It helps. In fact, I want to persuade you to keep at suggesting things, and debating them with some of us, albeit I suggest pro lately as to not derail the thread.

But this is a -1 from me.

 

[Jim Burger]

Your second point
this is already a thing, you have to make sure the person is activly not iding,
Means they need to see the the body and not id it willingly

 

[Jayy]

Your second point
this is already a thing, you have to make sure the person is activly not iding,
Means they need to see the the body and not id it willingly

Yeah as Jim and other admins have said. People are supposed to give you enough time to ID bodies, if you can clearly see that the body is in their vision and they decide to run from it you can kill them. If they can't see the body you can ask them to ID. If they refuse you have every right to kill them but in most cases they will either ID or Shoot at you (if they are a T) so you just have to have quick reflexes to react in what ever manner. Also if you feel like you do get RDM'd always let the admins know as we will take care of it for you. That way we can ensure that you have a fun time and are not getting killed every other round for no reason.

 

[The Phatt Controller/Thot]

no worries then guys n gals, i appreciate the discourse however it seems this is pretty much closed, if i am being insta killed near bodies ill contact admins.
Cheers all